Autre hypothèse pour les WTC

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Lao
  • Lao
  • Vintage Top utilisateur
  • #165
  • Publié par
    Lao
    le 12 Mai 2006, 09:56
plank a écrit :
Je ne sais pas si ce film a déjà été posté (et si ça a été fait, je m'en excuse d'avance), mais je suis en train de le regarder, et c'est vraiment édifiant :

ca s'appelle "Loose Change"

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/66298

J'ai regardé toute la vidéo.
I y a des choses discutables en particulier sur l'analyse des vidéos/photos car il faudrait avoir les originaux et avec une meilleure résolution vidéo.
Par contre, il a effectivement beaucoup de questions qui n'ont pas de réponses/explications.

J'ai assisté en direct à la TV à l'évènement (au boulot) et effectivement pendant l'évènement les journalistes ont fait écho d'explosions dans les tours à plusieurs reprises.

Visiblement il y a des citoyens américains qui s'interrogent. Et ils ont une longue expérience des pratiques des officines type CIA, DOD....
Bon courage.
Fabienm
Ca me conforte dans l'idée qu'un témoin occulaire, c'est assez peu fiable.
Adagio Management
management@adagio-online.com
+33 686 15 86 89
Bobba
  • Vintage Méga utilisateur
  • #168
  • Publié par
    Bobba
    le
I_Am_Legion a écrit :
http://www.lemonde.fr/web/depeches/0,14-0,39-27321533@7-37,0.html


Voilà qui devrait mettre fin à la polémique


C'est un faux, c'est evident !
"En fait on peut se demander si le mot 'télévision' est celui qui correspond à cette circulation extraordinaire, nouvelle, libre des images et des sons que l'on peut imaginer pour l'avenir. Tout ce que vous voyez arriver par le canal de ce câble, implique une participation active de chacun. Au fond, on ne trouve pas de mot. J'attend que des professionnels de la langue trouvent un mot nouveau qui définira très bien cette possibilité extraordinaire de circulation des informations."
Jean D'Arcy, 1969
Doc Loco
I_Am_Legion a écrit :
http://www.lemonde.fr/web/depeches/0,14-0,39-27321533@7-37,0.html


Voilà qui devrait mettre fin à la polémique


"Le ministère de la Défense remettra à Judicial Watch à 13h00 (locales, 17H00 GMT) une cassette vidéo censée montrer le vol 77 d'American Airlines frappant le Pentagone le 11 septembre 2001"


... attendons de voir, ça ne m'a pas l'air très affirmatif.
In rod we truss.

"Quelle opulence" - themidnighter

"It's sink or swim - shut up!"
Fabienm
Doc Loco a écrit :
I_Am_Legion a écrit :
http://www.lemonde.fr/web/depeches/0,14-0,39-27321533@7-37,0.html


Voilà qui devrait mettre fin à la polémique


"Le ministère de la Défense remettra à Judicial Watch à 13h00 (locales, 17H00 GMT) une cassette vidéo censée montrer le vol 77 d'American Airlines frappant le Pentagone le 11 septembre 2001"


... attendons de voir, ça ne m'a pas l'air très affirmatif.


Enfin !!
On peut se demander pourquoi ils ont gardé cet enregistrement si longtemps. En tout cas, j'espère que le public y aura accès.
Adagio Management
management@adagio-online.com
+33 686 15 86 89
Fabienm
I_Am_Legion a écrit :
http://www.lemonde.fr/web/depeches/0,14-0,39-27321533@7-37,0.html


Voilà qui devrait mettre fin à la polémique


Trouves-tu la source de cette info ?
Aucune mention sur le site du ministère de la défense US, j'ai juste retrouvé à peu près la même dépèche sur un site Canadien (mais là-bas, il disait juste que le pentagone "prévoyait" de livrer cette vidéo sans calendrier), mais aucune dépèche en anglais... C'est assez frustrant.
Adagio Management
management@adagio-online.com
+33 686 15 86 89
I_Am_Legion
Fabienm a écrit :
I_Am_Legion a écrit :
http://www.lemonde.fr/web/depeches/0,14-0,39-27321533@7-37,0.html


Voilà qui devrait mettre fin à la polémique


Trouves-tu la source de cette info ?
Aucune mention sur le site du ministère de la défense US, j'ai juste retrouvé à peu près la même dépèche sur un site Canadien (mais là-bas, il disait juste que le pentagone "prévoyait" de livrer cette vidéo sans calendrier), mais aucune dépèche en anglais... C'est assez frustrant.


La source c'est la dépêche AFP du site du Monde donc va demander à AFP pour aller plus en amont... Peut-être aussi sur le site de l'assoce qui a exigé la difusion de cette cassette
I_Am_Legion (aka Boris), Promoteur d'une orthographe civilisée pour les 10-99 ans
I_Am_Legion
http://www.judicialwatch.org/5772.shtml

Pour la vidéo, on y voit aps grand chose de neuf, juste qu'ils ont eu les vidéos "originales".
On peut leur faire dire tout et n'importe quoi, les théoriciens du complot y verront un missile, les autres y verront un avion? Pas très concluant



Voici les témoignages des gens que j'ai pu trouver sur le Net sur des sites conspirationnistes, j'arrive pas à trouver une source sérieuse de ça mais j'avais déjà vu le témoignage du Père Mc Graw dans l'un des numéros du Monde qui suivait immédiatement les attentats. Donc j'y attache un léger crédit.


Jose Velasquez, supervisor nearby gas station where a security tape had been confiscated:
"It was like an earthquake…(The engine and the vibrations)”
Elaine McCusker:
”I saw a very low-flying American Airlines plane that seemed to be accelerating.”
James Mosley, 4 stories up on a scaffold outside the Navy Annex:
”The building starting shaking, and I looked over and saw this big silver plane run into the side of the Pentagon. It almost knocked me off.”
Christopher Munsey:
”A silver, twin-engine American Airlines jetliner gliding almost noiselessly over the Navy Annex, fast, low and straight toward the Pentagon, just hundreds of yards away. It was a nightmare coming to life...The plane, with red and blue markings, hurtled by and within moments exploded in a ground-shaking "whoomp," as it appeared to hit the side of the Pentagon. A huge flash of orange flame and black smoke poured into the sky. Smoke seemed to change from black to white, forming a billowing column in the sky.”
Vin Narayanan (saw C-130):
”Then I looked up to my left and saw an American Airlines jet flying right at me. The jet roared over my head, clearing my car by about 25 feet. The windows were dark on American Airlines Flight 77…The tail of the plane clipped the overhanging exit sign... The windows were dark on American Airlines Flight 77 as it streaked toward its target, only 50 yards away. The hijacked jet slammed into the Pentagon at a ferocious speed. But the Pentagon's wall held up like a champ. It barely budged as the nose of the plane curled upwards and crumpled before exploding into a massive fireball.. The plane exploded after it hit, the tail came off and it began burning immediately...Within five minutes, police and emergency vehicles began arriving.”
Alan Wallace, fireman who had to run for his life and reported molten metal due to extreme heat:
"Firefighter Alan Wallace was standing outside his fire station when he looked across the nearby interstate and saw a white airplane with orange and blue trim heading almost straight at him. It slammed into the building just a couple hundred feet from him." (Scripps Howard News Service on 9/11)
”We have had a commercial carrier crash into the west side of the Pentagon at the heliport, Washington Boulevard side. The crew is OK. The airplane was a 757 Boeing or a 320 Airbus.”
Madelyn Zakhem, executive secretary at the Smart Traffic Center (Arlington), had just stepped outside:
"...she heard what she thought was a jet fighter directly overhead. It wasn't. It was an airliner coming straight up Columbia Pike at tree-top level. "It was huge! It was silver. It was low -- unbelievable! I could see the cockpit. I fell to the ground....I was crying and scared." (Roads of the Futute - September 21, 2001 - The Friday Report)
Tim Timmerman, a pilot in his home near the Pentagon:
”I was looking out the window; I live on the 16th floor, overlooking the Pentagon, in a corner apartment, so I have quite a panorama. And being next to National Airport, I hear jets all the time, but this jet engine was way too loud. It didn't appear to crash into the building; most of the energy was dissipated in hitting the ground, but I saw the nose break up, I saw the wings fly forward, and then the conflagration engulfed everything in flames…. It was a Boeing 757, American Airlines, no question….It added power on its way in, the nose hit, and the wings came forward and it went up in a fireball…A piece of twisted aircraft fuselage lay nearby...It was so close to me...” (London Guardian - September 12, 2001)
Joe Harrington, installing new furniture in Wedge 1, walked out on the parking lot before crash:
”One of my guys pointed to an American Airlines airplane 20 feet high over Washington Blvd. It seemed like it made impact just before the wedge.”
Joseph Royster, in his car:
"I was on the street driving, and then the plane went over the top of my car, just over the treetops ... It was a big aircraft just on its course."
Steve Storti, on the balcony of his apartment building which is less than a mile away from the Pentagon in Crystal City:
"Then he caught the glint of silver out of the corner of his eye. He looked up to see a passenger plane with the trademark stainless-steel fuselage and stripes of American Airlines...Time seemed to slip into slow motion as he watched the plane cross over Route 395, tip its left wing as it passed the Navy annex, veer sharply and then slice into the Pentagon. "I remember thinking that whoever is flying this knows what they're doing," Storti said. "The plane traveled straight as an arrow. It didn't waver and it didn't flip from side to side." Storti watched the plane slide silently into the Pentagon "like a car entering a garage." (The Providence Journal - September 12, 2001)
Master Sgt. Noel Sepulveda, who received a Airman’s Medal and Purple Heart for his actions near the Pentagon:
"The plane’s right wheel struck a light pole, causing it to fly at a 45-degree angle, he said. The plane tried to recover, but hit a second light pole and continued flying at an angle. "You could hear the engines being revved up even higher," Sepulveda said. The plane dipped its nose and crashed into the southwest side of the Pentagon."The right engine hit high, the left engine hit low," Sepulveda said. "For a brief moment, you could see the body of the plane sticking out from the side of the building. Then a ball of fire came from behind it." An explosion followed, sending Sepulveda flying against a light pole." (Master Sgt. Dorothy Goepel Air Force Print News - April 15, 2002)
Cheryl Hammond, at the Pentagon's south parking lot:
"I thought they'd put out an alert or something," Hammond said. "We saw the big American Airlines plane and started running." (The Pentagram)
Mike Walter, USA Today, on the road when a jet slammed into the Pentagon:
"I was sitting in the northbound on 27 and the traffic was, you know, typical rush-hour -- it had ground to a standstill. I looked out my window and I saw this plane, this jet, an American Airlines jet, coming. And I thought, 'This doesn't add up, it's really low...And I saw it. I mean it was like a cruise missile with wings. It went right there and slammed right into the Pentagon...Huge explosion, great ball of fire, smoke started billowing out. And then it was chaos on the highway as people tried to either move around the traffic and go down, either forward or backward...We had a lady in front of me, who was backing up and screaming, 'Everybody go back, go back, they've hit the Pentagon...It was just sheer terror." (http://archives.cnn.com/2001/CAREER/trends/09/11/witnesses/)
...it turned and came around in front of the vehicle and it clipped one of these light poles ... and slammed right into the "Pentagon right there." "Now there are some people who say that it skipped and went into the Pentagon and it may have gone that way, but that’s not what I saw. What I saw was the jet went very low into the Pentagon and it went straight." "It seemed like it was a slow, graceful bank and then once it straightened out, that's when it sped up." "...you could see chunks of the wreckage on the ground, pieces of the plane.... It literally disintegrated on impact. It hit, and as it went into the side of the building it sheared off the wings." (Digipresse interview, May 22, 2002)
Joel Sucherman:
"It came screaming across the highway, route 110…I did not see the engines, I saw the body and the tail; it was a silver jet with the markings along the windows that spoke to me as an American Airlines jet, it was not a commercial, excuse me, a business jet, it was not a Lear jet, ... it was a bigger plane than that." [Suchmacher said more, you’ll see it below]
Mary Ann Owens, on a highway between Arlington National Cemetery and the Pentagon:
"The sound of the engines came so quickly I thought it was another helicopter landing. I looked left to see a large plane barely clear the I-395 overpass. Instantly I knew what was happening, and I involuntarily ducked as the plane passed perhaps 50 to 75 feet above the roof of my car at great speed. Street lights toppled as the plane barely cleared the Interstate 395 overpass. ... Gripping the steering wheel of my vibrating car, I involuntarily ducked as the wobbling plane thundered over my head. Once it passed, I raised slightly and grimaced as the left wing dipped and scraped the helicopter area just before the nose crashed into the southwest wall of the Pentagon. The impact was deafening. The fuselage hit the ground and blew up. I could see office walls through the broken outer walls, then smoke and flames engulfed the west wall. Perhaps 10 seconds had passed since I first saw the plane. At first no one moved. Then debris began falling over the cars." (Gannett News Service & This is Local London - 9/11)
Robert A. Leonard, driving northbound in the HOV lanes on I-395 (His car passed the crest of the hill, at the point where Washington comes fully into view and the Pentagon is on the left):
"I braked, looked out my left window and saw a large commercial aircraft aiming for the Pentagon."The aircraft, so close to the ground, was banked skillfully to the right, leveled off perpendicular to the Pentagon's southwest side, then went full throttle directly toward the building. The plane vanished, absorbed by the building, and there was a slight pause. Then a huge fireball rose into the sky." (The Washington Post)
Omar Campo, gardener, working on the grass on the other side of the road:
"I was cutting the grass and it came in screaming over my head. I felt the impact It was a passenger plane. I think an American Airways plane."
Alfred S. Regnery, northbound on I-395:
"As I approached the Pentagon, which was still not quite in view, listening on the radio to the first reports about the World Trade Center disaster in New York, a jetliner, apparently at full throttle and not more than a couple of hundred yards above the ground, screamed overhead...I knew it was about to crah." (Human Events Online - September 17 2001)
Mary Lyman, driving northbound on the I-395:
"I actually saw the plane in front of me, coming in at a very steep angle toward the ground and going fast -- I think I actually heard it accelerate -- and then it disappeared and a cloud of smoke started billowing." (The Washington Post - September 16, 2001)
Michael James, who was in his car:
"The plane came over the top of us and brushed the trees. Then it looked like it hit the helicopter pad and skipped up and went right into the first and second floors." (Rocky Mountain News - Lexis-Nexis - M. E. Sprengelmeyer)
Afework Hagos, a computer programmer in the traffic jam at Columbia Pike:
”There was a huge screaming noise and I got out of the car as the plane came over. Everybody was running away in different directions. It was tilting its wings up and down like it was trying to balance. It hit some lampposts on the way in… I saw American Airline insignia and when it made impact with the Pentagon initially I saw smoke, then flames”
Phillip Thompson, stuck in traffic, gulf war veteran:
”I saw an American Airlines jet come overhead and slam into the Pentagon. The plane looked as if it were coming in for a landing - cruising at a shallow angle, wings level, very steady. But, strangely, the landing gear was up and the flaps weren't down….. and the blast hit us in a wave…..”
Levi Stephens, 23, courier Armed Forces Information Service:
”what looked like a 747" plowed into the south side of the Pentagon, possibly skipping through a heliport before it hit the building.”
Personnel working in the Navy Annex:
”I was driving away from the Pentagon in the South Pentagon lot when I hear this huge rumble, the ground started shaking … I saw this [plane] come flying over the Navy Annex. It flew over the van and I looked back and I saw this huge explosion, black smoke everywhere.”
Jack Singleton, president of Singleton Electric Co. Inc:
”The plane's left wing actually came in near the ground and the right wing was tilted up in the air. That right wing went directly over our trailer, so if that wing had not tilted up, it would have hit the trailer.”
Dave Winslow, Associated Press reporter, from a 10th floor apartment of a 17-floor block in Pentagon City:
"I heard this enormous sound of turbulence. . .As I turned to my right, I saw a jumbo tail go by me along Route 395. It was like the rear end of the fuselage was riding on 395. I just saw the tail go whoosh right past me. In a split second, you heard this boom. A combination of a crack and a thud. It rattled my windows. I thought they were going to blow out. Then came an enormous fireball." (The Washingtonian - Lexis-Nexis)
Steve Anderson from the USA Today building:
”I watched in horror as the plane flew at treetop level, banked slightly to the left, drug it's wing along the ground and slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon exploding into a giant orange fireball.”
Mark Bright, Defense Protective Service officers and one of the first on the scene:
”I knew it was going to strike the building because it was very, very low -- at the height of the street lights. It knocked a couple down…. I heard the plane power-up just before it struck the Pentagon.”
James Ryan, in his car:
"On my left, right above me - a little over. I see an American Airlines plane, silver plane, I could see AA on the tail. I noticed the landing gear was up...[How heigh was it] Within a hundred feet. It was very low. At that point he tilted his wings this way and this way (mimics), And the plane was slow, so that happened concurrently with the engines going down. (mimics) And then straightened out sort of suddenly and hit full gas. (mimics) It was so loud it hurt my ears. It was just so loud. He just went straight in at that point. ...[went over a hill and he heard an explosion]...The plane was low enough that I could see the windows of the plane. I could see every detail of the plane..." (Digipresse interview)
Kim Flyler, in the car trying to get on a nearby parking lot:
”At that moment I heard a plane and then a loud cracking noise.... Right before the plane hit the building, you could see the silhouettes of people in the back two rows. You couldn't see if they were male or female, but you could tell there was a human being in there."
Steve Eiden from his truck on a nearby road:
”You could almost see the people in the windows, he said as he watched the plane disappear behind a line of trees, followed by a tall plume of black smoke.”
James R. Cissell, former photo journalist stuck in traffic:
”I saw this plane coming in and it was low - and getting lower. If you couldn't touch it from standing on the highway, you could by standing on your car…. I thought, 'This isn't really happening. That is a big plane.' Then I saw the faces of some of the passengers on board…'It came in in a perfectly straight line…It didn't slow down. I want to say it accelerated. It just shot straight in.”
Linda Plaisted, in office at home in Arlington less than one mile from the Pentagon:
"The sound of the plane grew louder and louder...I looked out the window to the West just in time to see the belly of that aircraft and the tail section fly directly over my house at treetop height...I started to run toward my front door but the plane was going so fast at this point that it only took 4 or 5 seconds before I heard a tremendously loud crash and books on my shelves started tumbling to the floor." (Wherewereyou.org contribution #114
Oscar Martinez:
”I saw a big jet flying close to the building coming at full speed. There was a big noise when it hit the building.”
Allen Cleveland, from a Metro train going to National Airport (Also saw the C-130):
”I looked to the right of the train as we were coming into the station, and noticed a jet flying in real low, about a mid-sized passenger jet flying in. I know it was silver, that's the only thing I know.” (Washington Post video)
Bobby Eberle, looking from his car on the road:
”Riding in a convertible ... I looked back and saw a jet airliner flying very low and very fast.”
Kat Gaines, route 110 approaching the parking lots:
”I saw a low-flying jetliner strike the top of nearby telephone poles.”
Skarlet, webmaster of punkprincess.com:
”As I came up along the Pentagon I saw helicopters. That's not strange. It's the Pentagon. Then I saw the plane. There were only a few cars on the road, we all stopped....It was headed straight for the building. A huge jet. Then it was gone. A massive hole in the side of the Pentagon gushed smoke. The noise was beyond description. "Buildings don't eat planes. That plane, it just vanished. There should have been parts on the ground. It should have rained parts on my car. The airplane didn't crash. Where are the parts? There was a plane. It didn't go over the building. It went into the building. I want them to find it whole, wedged between floors or something. I want to make it make sense. I want to know why there's this gap in my memory, this gap that makes it seem as though the plane simply became invisible and banked up at the very last minute.” (http://punkprincess.com/archives/002150.html)
Penny Elgas, looking from her car from a nearby road:
”Traffic was at a standstill. I heard a rumble, looked out my driver's side window and realized that I was looking at the nose of an airplane coming straight at us from over the road (Columbia Pike) that runs perpendicular to the road I was on. The plane just appeared there- very low in the air, to the side of (and not much above) the CITGO gas station… then it banked in the slightest turn in front of me, toward the heliport… the plane seemed to be not more than 80 feet off the ground and about 4-5 car lengths in front of me… that other wing rocked slightly toward the ground... an American Airlines plane… gently rocked and slowly [She claims because of the adrenaline and shock she saw everything in slowmotion without registering the sound from that moment on] glided straight into the Pentagon…. At the point where the fuselage hit the wall, it seemed to simply melt into the building. I saw a smoke ring surround the fuselage as it made contact with the wall. It appeared as a smoke ring that encircled the fuselage at the point of contact and it seemed to be several feet thick. I later realized that it was probably the rubble of churning bits of the plane and concrete. The churning smoke ring started at the top of the fuselage and simultaneously wrapped down both the right and left sides of the fuselage to the underside, where the coiling rings crossed over each other and then coiled back up to the top. Then it started over again -- only this next time, I also saw fire, glowing fire in the smoke ring. At that point, the wings disappeared into the Pentagon. And then I saw an explosion and watched the tail of the plane slip into the building.”
Father Stephen McGraw:
”Washington Boulevard… The traffic was very slow moving, and at one point just about at a standstill…waited in the left hand lane of the road, on the side closest to the Pentagon…I did not hear anything at all until the plane was just right above our cars… passed about 20 feet over my car… The plane clipped the top of a light pole just before it got to us, injuring a taxi driver, whose taxi was just a few feet away from my car…. My only memories really were that it looked like a plane coming in for a landing. I mean in the sense that it was controlled and sort of straight. That was my impression… There was an explosion and a loud noise and I felt the impact. I remember seeing a fireball come out of two windows (of the Pentagon). I saw an explosion of fire billowing through those two windows.”
Shari Taylor, Pentagon parking lot:
"I looked over my shoulder and you can hear the plane coming in, it was just so loud...descending lower and lower, until he was almost on top of Route 27 that runs alongside the Pentagon. And then he just slammed into the Pentagon." (We Were on Duty documentary)
Wanda Ramey, stood at the Mall plaza booth and had an excellent view on the crash:
"I saw the wing of the plane clip the light post, and it made the plane slant. Then the engine revved up and crashed into the west side of the building," she said. "It happened so fast. One second I saw the plane and next it was gone." Recalling those moments again, Ramey said it appeared the building sucked the plane up inside. "A few seconds later, I heard a loud boom and I saw a huge fireball and lots of smoke," she said." (MDW News)
Terrance Kean, architect, from a 14-story building nearby:
”I heard the loud jet engines and glanced out his window. I saw this very, very large passenger jet. It just plowed right into the side of the Pentagon. The nose penetrated into the portico. And then it sort of disappeared, and there was fire and smoke everywhere. . . . It was very sort of surreal.”
David Marra, 23, an information-technology specialist:
”I saw an American Airlines jet swooping in, its wings wobbly, looking like it was going to slam right into the Pentagon: "It was 50 ft. off the deck when he came in. It sounded like the pilot had the throttle completely floored. The plane rolled left and then rolled right. Then he caught an edge of his wing on the ground." There is a helicopter pad right in front of the side of the Pentagon. The wing touched there, then the plane cartwheeled into the building.”
Bruce Elliott, form. commander of the Iowa Army Ammunition Plant, from the south parking lot:
”I looked to my left and saw the plane coming in…It was banking and garnering speed...It clipped a utility pole guide wire, which may have slowed it down a bit before it crashed into the building and burst into flames.”
William Middleton, sweeper who was less then a mile from the Pentagon:
”I looked up and spotted a commercial jet whose pilot seemed to be fighting with his own craft. Middleton said the plane was no higher than the tops of telephone poles as it lurched toward the Pentagon. The jet accelerated in the final few hundred yards before it tore into the building.”
Scott P. Cook and Ray Verle from fifth floor of the Portals building, at theTidal Basin and Maine Avenue [also described C-130 very detailed]:
”It was a 757 out of Dulles, which had come up the river in back of our building, turned sharply over the Capitol, ran past the White House and the Washington Monument, up the river to Rosslyn, then dropped to treetop level and ran down Washington Boulevard to the Pentagon.”
Bob Dubill, employee of USA today looking from his car on the road [pulitzer price winner]:
”I saw a jetliner fly over the roadway. It filled his field of vision. The jet was 40-feet off the ground speeding toward the Pentagon…the wheels were up..and I brazed myself for the explosion.”
Dan Creed and 2 collegues at the naval annex, next to the Pentagon:
”We saw the plane dive down and level off. It was no more than 30 feet off the ground, and it was screaming. It was just screaming. It was nothing more than a guided missile at that point. It's just the most frightening thing in the world, going full speed, going full throttle, its wheels up.”
Sgt. William Lagasse, a pentagon police dog handler, the son of an aviation instructor, at a nearby gas station:
”I saw the aircraft above my head about 80 feet above the ground, 400 miles an hour…I thought the plane was about to drop on top of me, it was that close. I knew the plane was not going to land. The 757's flaps were not deployed and the landing gear was retracted… It was close enough that I could see the windows and the blinds had been pulled down. I read American Airlines on it… I got on the radio and broadcast. I said a plane is, is heading toward the heliport side of the building.”
Army Captain Lincoln Leibner, south parking lot:
”I saw this large American Airlines passenger jet coming in fast and low... I was about 100 yards away…You could see through the windows of the aircraft. It was accelerating, It was wheels up, flaps up, engines full throttle... The plane completely entered the building… between the second and third floors… I got a little repercussion, from the sound, the blast. I've heard artillery, and that was louder than the loudest has to offer....Captain Lincoln Leibner says the aircraft struck a helicopter on the helipad, setting fire to a fire truck…” [The truck was indeed on fire but I haven’t read anything about a chopper on the helipad, although there was a chopper above the building.]
Lt Gen Ron Kadish, Director of the Ballistic Missile Defense Organization at the Navy Annex:
”I walked in the office and stood peering out of the window looking at the Pentagon. As I stood there, I instinctively ducked at the extremely loud roar and whine of a jet engine spooling up. Immediately, the large silver cylinder of an aircraft appeared in my window, coming over my right shoulder as I faced the Westside of the Pentagon directly towards the heliport. The aircraft, looking to be either a 757 or Airbus, seemed to come directly over the annex, as if it had been following Columbia Pike - an Arlington road leading to Pentagon. The aircraft was moving fast, at what I could only be estimate as between 250 to 300 knots…The aircraft was at a sharp downward angle of attack, on a direct course for the Pentagon. It was "clean", in as much as, there were no flaps applied and no apparent landing gear deployed. He was slightly left wing down as he appeared in my line of sight, as if he'd just "jinked" to avoid something. As he crossed Route 110 he appeared to level his wings, making a slight right wing slow adjustment as he impacted low on the Westside of the building to the right of the helo, tower and fire vehicle around corridor 5.”
Terry Morin, form. United States Marine Corps Aviator, from Federal Office Building [Navy Annex]:
”…The noise was absolutely deafening. The aircraft was essentially right over the top of me and the outer portion of the FOB (flight path parallel the outer edge of the FOB). Everything was shaking and vibrating, including the ground. I estimate that the aircraft was no more than 100 feet above me (30 to 50 feet above the FOB) in a slight nose down attitude. The plane had a silver body with red and blue stripes down the fuselage. I believed at the time that it belonged to American Airlines, but I couldn't be sure. It looked like a 737 and I so reported to authorities. Within seconds the plane cleared the 8th Wing of BMDO and was heading directly towards the Pentagon. Engines were at a steady high-pitched whine, indicating to me that the throttles were steady and full. I estimated the aircraft speed at between 350 and 400 knots. The flight path appeared to be deliberate, smooth, and controlled. As the aircraft approached the Pentagon, I saw a minor flash (later found out that the aircraft had sheared off a portion of a highway light pole down on Hwy 110). As the aircraft flew ever lower I started to lose sight of the actual airframe as a row of trees to the Northeast of the FOB blocked my view. I could now only see the tail of the aircraft. I believe I saw the tail dip slightly to the right indicating a minor turn in that direction. Elapsed time from hearing the initial noise to when I saw the impact flash was between 12 and 15 seconds.” [rest of his testimony can be found in other parts]
James S. Robbins, a national-security analyst and 'nationalreviewonline' contributor, watched from his 6th story office window in Arlington:
"I was standing, looking out my large office window, which faces west and from six stories up has a commanding view of the Potomac and the Virginia heights. The Pentagon is about a mile and half distant in the center of the tableau. I was looking directly at it when the aircraft struck. The sight of the 757 diving in at an unrecoverable angle is frozen in my memory, but at the time, I did not immediately comprehend what I was witnessing."
Michael Tinyk, at work on the 10th floor of the U.S. Trademark Office in Crystal City:
"he saw a dark orange and blue commercial airliner just above the tree line "coming in lower and lower" on what he instantly registered as the "wrong side" of the flight path to the airport. "There was no reason for a plane to come in that low, that fast" ... The plane took "a flight path straight up 395..." (The Providence Journal-Bulletin - Lexis-Nexis)
Thomas J. Trapasso, on the deck of his house about 1 mile away from the Pentagon and just west of I-395:
"The engines were just screaming, and the wheels were up," Trapasso said. "It disappeared over the trees, and I heard a boom. I knew something awful had happened--that an airplane had crashed somewhere in Washington, D.C." (Aviation Week - September 17, 2001)
Army Brig. Gen. Clyde A. Vaughn, in his car on I-395:
"Vaughn said "I was scanning the air" as he was sitting in his car. "There wasn't anything in the air, except for one airplane, and it looked like it was loitering over Georgetown (many miles west of the Pentagon), in a high, left-hand bank," he said. "That may have been the plane. I have never seen one on that (flight) pattern." Georgetown is a sector of the District of Columbia jammed with shops and restaurants - it is one of the city's most vital tourist draws. Commercial aircraft that are either approaching or departing from nearby Ronald Reagan National Airport do not fly over Georgetown, and rather trace their flight route over the nearby Potomac River, which separates the district from South Arlington, Virginia, location of the Pentagon. A few minutes later, Vaughn witnessed the craft's impact."
Rodney Washington, stuck in stand-still traffic a few hundred yards from the Pentagon:
"It was extremely loud, as you can imagine, a plane that size, it was deafening," Washington said. The plane was flying low and rapidly descended, Washington said, knocking over light poles before hitting the ground on a helicopter pad just in front of the Pentagon and essentially bouncing into it. It "landed there and the momentum took it into the Pentagon," Washington said. "There was a very, very brief delay and then it exploded." Washington speculated that it could have been worse: "If it had kept altitude a little bit higher it probably would have landed in the middle of the Pentagon, in that court." (http://www.boston.com/news/packages/underattack/globe_stories/0912/After_assault_on_Pentagon_orderly_response+.shtml)
Ian Wyatt, 24, is walking to his job:
"All of a sudden I hear incredibly loud jet engines flying very low over the highway. I duck, I look up, it looks like a silver American Airlines, twin-engine plane and then boom. I couldn't see from the bridges but then there was this plume of smoke coming up from the Pentagon...It was going so fast and it was so low" (The Free Lance-Star - video)
Some 'Barbara' at a CNN audio interview on the morning of september 11:
"We were trying to get off of the exit for the Memorial Bridge. On the left-hand side, there was a commercial plane coming in, and was coming in too fast and the too low, and the next thing we saw was a go-down below the side of the road, and we just saw the fire that came up after that...[Was there a sound as well?]...that I can't verify, because the windows were up in the vehicle...[So you believe it was a commercial airliner that was hitting the Pentagon?]...Yes, and I'm not sure exactly where the Pentagon, where it was in relationship top where the plane went down. You know, but it was relatively close to one another...No, I did not see what kind of an airline."
'K.M.', a Pentagon City resident:
"I live in Pentagon City (part of Arlington) and can see the Pentagon when I look out my window. ... It was so shocking, I was listening to the news on what had happened in New York, and just happened to look out the window because I heard a low flying plane and then I saw it hit the Pentagon. It happened so fast... it was in the air one moment and in the building the next..." (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/1537530.stm)
'Steve' (cyclesail@yahoo.com), who was about half a mile away, posted in a google groups message:
"I saw the jet just before it crashed. Something big and silver, nose down going aimed like a dart straight into it. The fireball was huge, 10 stories high and our building shook hard. Everyone in our two towers ran to the fire escapes. Most not knowing what exactly was happening. I had more fear because I saw what happened." (http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.food.drink.beer/msg/d37c10da4bf8fae2?oe=UTF-8&output=gplain)
Whisper2i (whisper2i@aol.com):
[did you see the plane there?? or parts of it?]...No, but I saw the plane hit the building on 9/11. It was a plane. it was big it was flying low, and it hit the pentagon. I saw it from the front seat of my car on the highway that passes that side of the pentagon. There are parts all over the place, they are all smaller than a US nickle because of the force of the crash." (http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.folklore.urban/msg/5d5cc167a660e256?output=gplain)
Radio Transmissions tape, released by the Arlington Police Department:
"Motor 14, it was an American Airlines plane, uh, headed eastbound over the Pike, possibly toward the Pentagon." (C-span audio file)
Unnamed Navy admiral, who was walking outside the Pentagon:
"It was a good size jet aircraft. I saw it clip a light pole but keep coming and then slam into the front of the building." (Houston Chronicle - Lexis-Nexis - Michael Hedges)
Dennis Clem:
"There was a commercial airliner that said American Airliners over the side of it flying at just above treetop height at full speed headed for the Pentagon."
I_Am_Legion (aka Boris), Promoteur d'une orthographe civilisée pour les 10-99 ans
Fabienm
C'est une putain de plaisanterie ces vidéos !!!
On voit que dalle.
Alors que le FBI a confisqué de leur propres aveux les caméras de surveillance de la station service juste en face et de l'hôtel une rue plus loin, ils diffusent une vidéo où on voit : RIEN
Si c'est comme ça qu'ils espèrent calmer les nombreuses associations du genre judicial watch, ils ont vraiment vu la vierge !

La deuxième vidéo est d'ailleurs depuis longtemps diffusé sur le web et a fait l'objet de nombreuses analyses montrant qu'il manquait des images (avec le compteur présent sur à ce moment-là). Bizarrement, sur cette vidéo, le compteur est différent et commence à 0 (comme c'est étrange), alors que sur la vidéo du net, elle, marquait l'heure précise. Bref, encore une bonne prise de tête pour comprendre pourquoi ils ont ajouté ce 'compteur'.

Sinon, Legion, on a mis sur le forum de nombreux liens de témoignages de témoins 'visuels' de l'évènement qui sont assez contradictoires, il est donc difficile de porter un quelconque crédit à tout cela.

Bref, on a pas avancé d'un pouce.
Adagio Management
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I_Am_Legion
J'ai pas dit qu'on avait avancé bien au contraire

M'enfin je redit que le témoignage du père Mc Graw est passé dans le Monde après les autres j'en sais rien
I_Am_Legion (aka Boris), Promoteur d'une orthographe civilisée pour les 10-99 ans
Nameless
En faisant un arrêt sur image, on arrive à voir ça:



Si pour les autorités, c'est un avion, pour moi ça me parait un peu petit...
Enfin bref... Ou est la vérité, ça on ne le suara peut être jamais...
I_Am_Legion
Nameless a écrit :
En faisant un arrêt sur image, on arrive à voir ça:



Si pour les autorités, c'est un avion, pour moi ça me parait un peu petit...
Enfin bref... Ou est la vérité, ça on ne le suara peut être jamais...


On peut rien en conclure, le pentagone fait 36m de haut, un Boeing 12 (train sorti ?), avec la perspective, on peut conclure à un Boeing comme à un missile. Perso, j'y vois autant un -gros- missile qu'un Boeing mais c'est mon avis
I_Am_Legion (aka Boris), Promoteur d'une orthographe civilisée pour les 10-99 ans
Salut tout le monde,

Donc d'après cette vidéo, l'avion aurait bien fait un rase motte avant de venir se crasher contre le pentagone, ce qui réfute l'hypothèse de Biz qui disait qu'il aurait très bien pu faire une approche standard comme pour un atterissage et faire son arrondi pour se taper le mur.

On voit "bien" sur la vidéo qu'il ne fait pas d'arrondi, je connais très peu la maniement d'un avion même si j'ai passé des journées entières sur flight simulator , et Biz aura surement plus de bouteille que moi pour en discuter, mais comment faire un rase motte aussi près du sol à 800 Km/h sans se taper le sol avant l'impact sur le mur ?
Il peut l'avoir fait c'est vrai, mais à cette vitesse il aurait fallu qu'il garde la hauteur par rapport au sol sur combien de mètres avant le pentagone ???

Bref, juste pour le plaisir de remettre un peu d'huile sur le feu concernant les paroles des "soit disant" experts, le lendemain du 11/09 (soit le 12 si je ne m'abuse ), un pilote air france était interviewé au journal de TF1 dans lequel il osait dire qu'il n'était pas capable de viser le WTC avec son avion... soit disant trop dur à faire... Biz vous confirmera le contraire... c'est rien de compliqué, je l'ai fait sur Flight simulator, et j'avais même pas besoin de piloter, il suffit de choper une radiale de VOR qui passe par le WTC, positionner l'altitude, et l'avion va directement là où on lui demande...(tout cela était très facilement préparable à l'avance...)

Biz, si tu as des contradictions à apporter elles sont les bienvenues, étant donné que niveau pilotage je te fais confiance

A+
La confiance c'est comme la virginité, quand on l'a perdue, on ne peut plus revenir en arrière...
BiZ
  • Vintage Top utilisateur
  • #179
  • Publié par
    BiZ
    le
nbosson a écrit :
Donc d'après cette vidéo, l'avion aurait bien fait un rase motte avant de venir se crasher contre le pentagone, ce qui réfute l'hypothèse de Biz qui disait qu'il aurait très bien pu faire une approche standard comme pour un atterissage et faire son arrondi pour se taper le mur.

Bah non, pourquoi? On ne voit pas l'arrondi voilà tout. Enfin j'en sais rien, c'est qu'une hypothèse, pour moi plus crédible que faire du rase motte à 800km/h pendant des centaines de mètres

Citation:
On voit "bien" sur la vidéo qu'il ne fait pas d'arrondi, je connais très peu la maniement d'un avion même si j'ai passé des journées entières sur flight simulator , et Biz aura surement plus de bouteille que moi pour en discuter, mais comment faire un rase motte aussi près du sol à 800 Km/h sans se taper le sol avant l'impact sur le mur ?

Sur la vidéo, on voit un avion qui fait du rase motte sur quoi? 200m? Alors, fin d'arrondi? J'en sais rien, c'est un truc qui parait plausible. Le comment, c'est l'affaire du mec qui était aux commandes. En tous cas ce n'est pas impossible.

Citation:
Il peut l'avoir fait c'est vrai, mais à cette vitesse il aurait fallu qu'il garde la hauteur par rapport au sol sur combien de mètres avant le pentagone ???

J'en sais rien. En fait le problème c'est qu'on était pas dans l'avion

Citation:
Bref, juste pour le plaisir de remettre un peu d'huile sur le feu concernant les paroles des "soit disant" experts, le lendemain du 11/09 (soit le 12 si je ne m'abuse ), un pilote air france était interviewé au journal de TF1 dans lequel il osait dire qu'il n'était pas capable de viser le WTC avec son avion... soit disant trop dur à faire... Biz vous confirmera le contraire... c'est rien de compliqué, je l'ai fait sur Flight simulator, et j'avais même pas besoin de piloter, il suffit de choper une radiale de VOR qui passe par le WTC, positionner l'altitude, et l'avion va directement là où on lui demande...(tout cela était très facilement préparable à l'avance...)

Tiens je savais pas ça. C'est plutôt inquiétant, parce que viser les plots d'une piste c'est autrement plus difficle qu'une grosse tour De là à dire que c'est facile à faire, c'est autre chose. Le coup du radial vor ça marche sur le papier, rien ne dit que ça fonctionne en l'air (déjà prendre un radial qui passe par le WTC, c'est très fort! Et on parle pas de la précision de la balise mais bon c'est une autre histoire).

Citation:
Biz, si tu as des contradictions à apporter elles sont les bienvenues, étant donné que niveau pilotage je te fais confiance

T'as tort, j'ai jamais piloté de très gronavion
If you think life's a vending machine, where you put in virtue
And you get out happiness, then you're probably gonna be disappointed.

marseillet: ben,oui.j'assume complètement mon status de parasite de la société.
et comme les français ont choisi de faire dans le social,c'est pas demain que je vais prendre le chemin de la boite!!!!!
Bobba
  • Vintage Méga utilisateur
  • #180
  • Publié par
    Bobba
    le
Nameless a écrit :
En faisant un arrêt sur image, on arrive à voir ça:



Si pour les autorités, c'est un avion, pour moi ça me parait un peu petit...
Enfin bref... Ou est la vérité, ça on ne le suara peut être jamais...


Sur l'autre video, on voit on objet volant (non identifié) beaucoup plus long. Mais c'est toujours flou et peut etre deformé à cause de la vitesse de l'engin.
"En fait on peut se demander si le mot 'télévision' est celui qui correspond à cette circulation extraordinaire, nouvelle, libre des images et des sons que l'on peut imaginer pour l'avenir. Tout ce que vous voyez arriver par le canal de ce câble, implique une participation active de chacun. Au fond, on ne trouve pas de mot. J'attend que des professionnels de la langue trouvent un mot nouveau qui définira très bien cette possibilité extraordinaire de circulation des informations."
Jean D'Arcy, 1969

En ce moment sur backstage...